New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

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New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء ديسمبر 28, 2010 2:05 pm

Thanks to Tango from keypublishing forums.


China's Stealth Striker
Hot from the fence-line is what looks like the best image yet of China's Chengdu stealth fighter, identified so far as J-20.
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the red star looks photoshopped to me!

Remarkable indeed - and at the rate we're going there will be a three-dimensional animated cutaway of this beast by 2.30 Tuesday afternoon, so we can safely stick to what we can see here without having to speculate too far. (Note: this photo appeared on the China Defense Forum. All I've done to it is rotate it and adjust contrast and brightness.)


The impression here is of a big, long aircraft, 70+ feet from nose to tail, which would make sense for a number of reasons. Rob Hewson at Jane's has reported that Russia has supplied 32,000-pound thrust 117S engines for the J-20, which would be adequate for an aircraft in the 80,000 pound class - with perhaps lower supercruise performance and agility than an F-22, but with larger weapon bays and more fuel.


But ask yourself: why would China need or want a short-range stealth aircraft? Any targets with defenses that call for that capability are a long way from the mainland. Also, the bigger that the aircraft is, the more likely it is that it is a bomber as much as, if not more than, a fighter.
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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء ديسمبر 28, 2010 2:35 pm

woow. a few more from keypublishing!
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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة mosab » الثلاثاء ديسمبر 28, 2010 4:58 pm

Now won't you love to see this bird flying over Baghdad in IrQAF colours!!!! I bet the Chinese will put in production before the PAKFA
Per Ardua, Ad Astra.

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء ديسمبر 28, 2010 6:32 pm

one can dream :D LOL but I doubt the chinese will export this for a while yet.

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الثلاثاء ديسمبر 28, 2010 7:57 pm

Here the last pic when the prototype doing the first high-speed taxiing trial

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And here is another article about J-XX
J-20 - Denial Is Not An Option

More photos of the Chengdu stealth fighter prototype, reportedly the J-20, continue to emerge - although they don't add too much as yet to our understanding of the aircraft itself. It will take a little more measurement to pin down the jet's size, and without a plan view we can't say much. (The last time this happened was with the YF-12, and most people were miles away from the real aircraft.)

First, it looks like a delta, not a lambda:
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That has some signature implications, with what looks like an almost unswept trailing edge, because edges scatter forward and backwards.

More new photos:
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The questions that need to be answered start with the size, because that will start to tell us where this aircraft falls on the bomber/fighter continuum.

The next question: how far along is the aircraft in development and, if it is pursued, when will it become operational? I would submit that the simplistic approach - comparing this aircraft to the YF-22 or X-35 and therefore projecting an IOC well beyond 2020 - is philosophically wrong, dangerous and stupid.

One problem is that we don't have a pattern for Chinese major programs. In the Cold War, the Soviet Union had its own development procedure that often confused us. The first aircraft of any type would be pure prototypes. Once the go-ahead was given for the type to enter service, MiG or Sukhoi would build a small batch of aircraft for service testing under operational conditions. Only then would full-rate production start. What was often confusing was that the service-test jets would be mistaken for operational aircraft.

China has not had many major combat aircraft programs. The most complex is the J-10, which flew in 1998 and is now well established in service with a major upgrade in flight test. The simpler JF-17 has moved even faster. However, this means that Chengdu can draw on a team which has recent experience with two full development programs and an upgrade.

Once big factor will be the engine. China's transition from dependence on Russian-developed high-performance engines is still under way. The key will be seeing whether and when the doemstically designed WS-10 replaces the Russian AL-31 in the J-10 and the J-11 (China's "bootleg" version of the Sukhoi family).

What could change things substantially is Russian-Chinese collaboration. Despite Russian concerns over China's reverse-engineering of its products, the lure of Chinese money and access to China's micro-electronics base is strong. And if Russia has permitted the export of the latest 117S engines for the J-20, it tells us a lot.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء ديسمبر 28, 2010 8:44 pm

i don't know, but from here it looks like a HUGE fighter, in the SU30 class! This certainly is a wake up call for the americans...

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الأربعاء ديسمبر 29, 2010 12:48 am

And more new pic.
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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأربعاء ديسمبر 29, 2010 2:20 am

it IS a pretty huge plane. Knowing the chinese this is probably not the first prototype (it looks already painted for example) and the speed at which China's accelerating its developments I would not be surprised to see at least a squadron of these by 2013...

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأربعاء ديسمبر 29, 2010 11:33 am

some better pics... they keep getting better and better.
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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الأربعاء ديسمبر 29, 2010 4:51 pm

We get better pics step by step, it seem the fog lefts at Chengdu.

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الأربعاء ديسمبر 29, 2010 5:04 pm

I think this Chinese stealthy aircraft 5th generation is a good copy from all or mixture of 5th generation aircrafts or prototypes like F-22,YF-23,MiG 1.44 and T-50?!...let wait and see. Hopefull we'll see the frist flight very soon!

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الأربعاء ديسمبر 29, 2010 8:20 pm

And more new pic.
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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الخميس ديسمبر 30, 2010 12:25 am

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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الثلاثاء يناير 11, 2011 7:09 pm

Chinese J-20 conducts maiden flight.

China online media say stealth fighter makes first flight

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110111/wl_ ... _fighter_1

Chinese Stealth Fighter Makes First Test Flight (excerpt)

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... light.html

China Conducts First Flight Test of J-20

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =ASI&s=TOP

China confirms maiden flight of fifth-generation fighter

http://en.rian.ru/world/20110111/162100197.html

VIDEO: China’s J-20 completes maiden flight

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... light.html
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Re: New chinese J20 5th generation fighter!

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء يناير 11, 2011 9:34 pm

beautiful!
Since the Iraqi air force is planning for "independence" by 2020, its not unreasonable to make a deal with china for 1 squadron of J20 to be sold to Iraq in the next 8-10 years (they are planning on entering it into service in the next 4-5 years, meaning it could be available for export in 8-10 years)?

Chinese companies are invested in every iraqi oil field.
China buys more oil from Iraq than from Iran today, and this fraction will go up massively. By 2017 China will be buying more oil from Iraq than the rest of the gulf region combined (about 5M barrels/day)
China has a strong economic and political reason to support Iraq, and since america is willing to dump iraq to the sharks (all interviews with iraqi officers including mohamad al askari have now publicly indicated that the US is unwilling to sell modern high-tech to Iraq) we don't have much choice... (European equipment is expensive, and much of it is embargoed to Iraq, Russians are very unreliable in both their supply and maintenance contracts).

I think Iraq's "chinese air force" can consist of:
1sqdr (18) J20 super fighters - Iraq will always need a "premier interceptor" to protect baghdad / mosul / basra airspaces
5sqdr (90) JF17 Block II and III with modern AAMs like SD10 and even some with METEOR/SELEX-AESA
2sqdr (36) L15 supersonic trainers and Lead In Fighter Trainers / Light attack aircraft

This would give Iraq a pretty potent self defence and limited ground support force, at a lower overall cost to European/US kit, and with the added benefit of Stealth 5th Generation aircraft to keep it competitive with the neighbours (Israel / Turkey will operate F35, expect Kuwait / Saudi / Qatar / UAE to operate it too in future).

Now the US military may be trying to keep up the pretence that Iraq does not need a deterrent against its neighbours "other than iran and syria"... but that is purely from a US centric perspective of things. From Iraq's view, we need to deter Saudi, Jordan, Turkey and Israel as much as Iran and Syria. Therefore the whole "downgraded F16s and M1s probably won't wash for much longer... the Iraqi military brass, right up to the top of the chain are now close to rebelling, and askari's very strongly worded public statements wrt to weapons supply are very much a break from the norm of not mentioning / criticising the US FMS "political strings/limitations").

China, unlike all the other suppliers is very much willing to give iraq the following:
-Local assembly of aircraft (at least the JF17s and Hongdu L15s).
-Local overhaul facility
-Tailored avionics/weapons for Iraqi requirements (western for some "interceptor versions" with meteor/selex-aesa)

As a nice example of the chinese willingness, when I was working in a oil refinery project in Central Iraq last year, The Chinese Company Chery was rebuilding Iraq's old automotive works in Iskandariya, within a seemingly very short period, The Iraqis were assembling several models of Chery cars and when I was there, bodyshops etc... were added with amazing speed by the Chinese, sending Iraqi crews and engineers for training to china...

within a few months baghdad's streets were full of these Iraqi made Chery cars, sold for half the price of an imported car.

More importantly, the chinese were building this project, without undue security, in the middle of the so-called "triangle of death", and for a VERY low price to boot!

This is the difference between the chinese and the "western" suppliers. They give you what you want, at a good price, and actually deliver rather than just talk. Now imagine if Iraq had contracted Ford to build a car assembly / bodyshop in the "triangle of death" in 2009...

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