Future Iraqi Navy

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Re: 2 Riverhawk Offshore Support vessels for Iraq

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » السبت ديسمبر 22, 2012 12:15 am

Anti-ship missiles need launch platforms, which means ships both missile boats or larger ships like OPV- Offshore patrol vessel or Corvette.

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Re: 2 Riverhawk Offshore Support vessels for Iraq

مشاركة بواسطة صلاح الدين الأيوبي » السبت ديسمبر 22, 2012 1:19 am

TangoIII كتب:Anti-ship missiles need launch platforms, which means ships both missile boats or larger ships like OPV- Offshore patrol vessel or Corvette.
they can always go for the land based variants like the french exocet missile.

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Re: 2 Riverhawk Offshore Support vessels for Iraq

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » السبت ديسمبر 22, 2012 2:44 am

Sure, but this one option Land Attack Missile (LAM) and not the only, but ships remain the best platform for the use of such missiles.
There are a variety of anti-ship missiles a not only Exocet.

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Re: 2 Riverhawk Offshore Support vessels for Iraq

مشاركة بواسطة التوبوليف العراقية » السبت ديسمبر 22, 2012 12:38 pm

التوبوليف العراقية كتب:مشكورين على الخبر الحلو ومبروك للعراق
ولكن هل يمكن استحداث مشاركة عن الاسلحة التي سيستلمها العراق عام 2013 ؟
اقصد بسؤالي هو عقود التسليح لكافة القطاعات البرية والبحرية والجوية لعام 2013 .. بحيث تكون على شكل مشاركة مع التاريخ اي في اي شهر مثلا ..
المعرفة تسبق النصر، والجهل يسبق الهزيمة

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Re: 2 Riverhawk Offshore Support vessels for Iraq

مشاركة بواسطة صلاح الدين الأيوبي » السبت ديسمبر 22, 2012 12:59 pm

The Iraqi navy facing many challenges, the shallow waters in um qaser is not ideal for operating big warships and the fast growth of Iranian speed boats and mini submarines present a challenge that needs to be dealt with .

In my opinion the Iraqi navy needs long range anti submarine helicopters, mine sweepers, 2 or 3 hover crafts for troops carrying, land based anti ship missiles, more scan eagle UAV’s, fast boats and 2 or 3 frigates for air defense to protect the navy assets from air strikes.

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Re: 2 Riverhawk Offshore Support vessels for Iraq

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » السبت ديسمبر 22, 2012 2:38 pm

no need for frigates. land based fighters provide better air coverage. I would base Iraq's "naval" force mostly on a small "inshore" naval asset, with the power projection being purely aircraft / missile based. Iran simply has too many missile armed speedboats and land based missile launchers to make frigates and the like viable for Iraq.

SU-34 maritime strike
SH-60 EDIT seahawk... this was already in an early plan for the Iraqi navy... but I wonder if they still have a budget for this.
a set of decent surface search radars on tethers land based)
a patriot battery around faw covered by two PANTSIR-S1 batteries

if you want to go "hardcore"
2x P8IQ poseidons for maritime surveillance

that is all.

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Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » السبت ديسمبر 22, 2012 2:46 pm

the P8 poseidon...

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The Boeing P-8 Poseidon (formerly the Multimission Maritime Aircraft or MMA) is a military aircraft currently being developed for the United States Navy (USN). The aircraft is being developed by Boeing Defense, Space & Security, modified from the 737-800.
The P-8 is intended to conduct anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and shipping interdiction and to engage in an electronic intelligence (ELINT) role. This will involve carrying torpedoes, depth charges, SLAM-ER anti-ship missiles, and other weapons. It will also be able to drop and monitor sonobuoys. It is designed to operate in conjunction with the Broad Area Maritime Surveillance unmanned aerial vehicle. The P-8 has also been ordered by the Indian Navy.

Origins
The Lockheed P-3 Orion ASW aircraft has been in service with the U.S. Navy since 1962.[4] In the mid-1980s the Navy began studies for a replacement aircraft for the P-3, which had its range and time on station capabilities reduced because of increasing weight and was approaching the end of its airframe fatigue life. The Navy specification also required reduced operating and support costs. In 1989, the Navy awarded Lockheed a fixed-price contract to develop the P-7, but the project was canceled the following year.[5]
Boeing and Lockheed Martin were part of a new competition for a replacement aircraft begun in 2000. Lockheed submitted the Orion 21, an updated, new-build version of the P-3 turboprop.[6] Boeing submitted a proposal centered around its 737-800 airliner.[7] BAE Systems offered a new-build version of the Nimrod MRA4, the newest version of the UK's indigenous jet-powered maritime patrol aircraft. However, BAE withdrew from the competition in October 2002, recognizing the political reality that the failure to find a US-based production partner made the bid unrealistic.[8]
On 14 May 2004, Boeing was selected winner of the competition.[9] The following month the Navy awarded Boeing a development contract for MMA.[10] The project was planned to be for at least 108 airframes for the U.S. Navy.[11] More orders are possible from the other nations operating over 200 P-3s. Project value is expected to be worth at least $15 billion. Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Spirit AeroSystems, GE Aviation Systems, Marshall Aerospace, CFMI, BAE Systems, and Marotta are major subcontractors.[12]
In July 2004, the U.S. Navy placed an order for five MMA aircraft. The first flight-test aircraft was to be completed in 2009 before beginning testing.[11] The first aircraft, a test aircraft, is to be converted to production standards at a later date. Boeing's MMA aircraft received the P-8A designation on 30 March 2005.[13] The Navy later ordered another five aircraft.
[edit]Design phase and testing


Roll-out of the P-8 on 30 July 2009
The P-8 is based on a proven airframe design and will at first be equipped with legacy P-3 systems with later upgrades to more advanced technology. The Government Accountability Office has credited this incremental approach with keeping the project on schedule and on budget. Timely replacement of the P-3s is vital because their airframes are breaking down from age and use.[14]
In mid-2008, the Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) deleted the requirement for the P-8A to be equipped with magnetic anomaly detection (MAD) equipment. This was part of a NAVAIR-directed effort to reduce P-8A aircraft weight by 3,500 lb (1,600 kg) to improve aircraft range and endurance. P-8Is destined for the Indian Navy will continue to retain MAD. The P-8A will use a new hydrocarbon sensor to detect fuel vapors from diesel submarines and other conventionally powered ships.[15]
The P-8's first flight occurred on 25 April 2009.[1] The second and third P-8s have flown and begun flight testing by early August 2010.[16] On 11 August 2010, the U.S. DoD approved the P-8 for low-rate production.[17][18] A P-8 deployed sonobuoys for the first time on 15 October 2010, dropping six sonobuoys in three separate low altitude passes.[19]
In 2011, it was found that the ice detection system on the P-8 was defective due to the use of several counterfeit components. It is alleged that these substandard parts had been poorly refurbished and sold to P-8 subcontractor BAE Systems as new by a supplier in China.[20]
The first production P-8A was handed over to the Navy on 4 March 2012. It flew to Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Florida, where it will be used for aircrew training with the Fleet Replacement Squadron (FRS), Patrol Squadron 30 (VP-30).[2] On 24 September 2012, Boeing announced it had received a $1.9 billion order for another 11 aircraft. It has delivered the first three P-8As.[21]
[edit]Derivatives
Boeing approached the U.S. Air Force in 2010 about replacing the E-8C Joint STARS fleet with a modified version of the P-8 at the same cost Northrop Grumman proposed for re-engining and upgrading the E-8s.[22][23] The proposed version is named P-8 Airborne Ground Surveillance (AGS) and would integrate an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, and have ground moving target indicator (GMTI) and synthetic aperture radar (SAR) capabilities.[24]
The main distinguishing feature of the P-8 AGS is pod-mounted radar, fixed to the lower centerline of the fuselage; the pod is lowered so the engine nacelles do not interrupt the radar's line of sight. Two aft ventral fins on lower aft provide stability for the aircraft. The P-8 AGS also uses the P-8A's Raytheon AN/APY-10 multi-mission surface search radar.[24] Boeing has campaigned for a fleet of P-8 AGS aircraft instead of re-engining the E-8s.[25] The Air Force’s Analysis of Alternatives (AoA) of the JSTARS platform began in March 2010 to review options for performing the JSTARS mission. An initial decision on the AOA was expected in September 2011.[26]
[edit]Design

External images
P-8 Poseidon cutway showing weapons bay
Cutaway of P-8 from Flightglobal.com
The P-8 is a militarized version of the 737-800 with 737-900-based wings.[27] The airframe uses a 737-800-based fuselage that is similar to but longer than the 737-700-based C-40 Clipper. The P-8 has a strengthened fuselage and 767-400ER-style raked wingtips, instead of the blended winglets available on 737NG variants.[28] The five operator stations (two Naval Flight Officers plus three enlisted Aviation Warfare Operators/Naval Aircrewman) are mounted in a sideways row, along the port side of the cabin. None of these crew stations have windows. One observer window is located on each side of the forward cabin.
The P-8 features the Raytheon APY-10 multi-mission surface search radar.[29] The P-8I will feature an international version of the APY-10.[30] A short bomb bay for torpedoes and other stores opens behind the wing. The aircraft also includes six additional body fuel tanks for extended range from Marshall Aerospace; three of the tanks are located in the forward cargo compartment and three in the rear. In-flight refueling is via a receptacle on top of the forward fuselage, just aft of the cockpit.
In U.S. service, the Poseidon will be complemented by the Broad Area Maritime Surveillance UAV system, which will provide continuous surveillance. The system is expected to enter service around 2010. Around 40 UAVs based on the RQ-4 Global Hawk will be used in the program. Because of the cancellation of Lockheed Martin's Aerial Common Sensor project, Boeing will propose a signals intelligence variant of the P-8 to service the requirement for the U.S. Navy.[31]
[edit]Operational history



P-8 flying over Washington State
In February 2012, the P-8 made its mission debut during "Bold Alligator" 2012, an annual littoral warfare exercise.[32] In April 2012, the aircraft took part in Exercise Joint Warrior, flying out of RAF Lossiemouth.[33] During RIMPAC 2012 in the Hawaiian area, two P-8As participated in 24 exercise scenarios as part of Air Test and Evaluation Squadron One (VX-1) forward deployed at Marine Corps Base Hawaii in Kaneohe Bay.[34] Initial operating capability is expected in 2013.[11]
U.S. Navy P-8s may rotate through American allies such as "the Philippines or Thailand to help those nations with maritime domain awareness."[35]
[edit]Exports and foreign involvement
The U.S. Department of Defense wants to follow a program template similar to that of the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program, with international cooperation from prospective MMA users.[36] Boeing publicly identified New Zealand as a potential customer.[37] Italy indicated interest in purchasing MMA aircraft, with fleet support provided by Alitalia in 2004.[38] However, in December 2008, Italy announced the purchase of four ATR 72 turboprop aircraft to replace its aging Atlantic Maritime Patrol Aircraft,[39] possibly as a temporary solution because Italy remained interested in the P-8.[40][41]


A P-8A Poseidon flying along side a Lockheed P-3 Orion, close to Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, in 2010.
Australia
The Australian Minister for Defence announced on 20 July 2007 that the P-8A MMA had been selected as the preferred aircraft to replace the Royal Australian Air Force's fleet of AP-3C Orions in conjunction with a yet-to-be-selected unmanned aerial vehicle. The last RAAF AP-3C is scheduled to be retired in 2018, after nearly 30 years of service.[42] A memorandum of understanding (MOU) will be signed that will help Australia to gain access to classified data and help to input specific requirements.[43] In March 2009, Australia's Chief of Air Force stated that subject to anticipated government approval, the RAAF would begin to add the P-8 to their fleet in 2016.[44] In October 2012, Australia formalized its participation in the program with a commitment of A$73.9m ($81.1m) in an agreement with the U.S. Navy.[45] Eight P-8 aircraft are planned to replace the RAAF's AP-3C aircraft by 2017-18, with Initial Operational Capability (IOC) scheduled for the period FY2017-18 through FY2019-20.[46][47]
India
In January 2008, Boeing proposed the P-8I, a customized export variant of the P-8A, for the Indian Navy.[48] On 4 January 2009, India's Ministry of Defence signed an agreement with Boeing for the supply of eight P-8Is at a total cost of US$2.1 billion. These aircraft would replace Indian Navy's aging Tupolev Tu-142M maritime surveillance turboprops.[49][50][51] Each aircraft has an average cost of about US$220 million.[52] The deal makes India the first international customer of the P-8, and also marks Boeing's first military sale to India.[53] In October 2010, India's Defence Acquisition Council of the Ministry of Defence approved the purchase of four additional P-8Is.[54][55] In March 2011, India ordered the four additional P-8s from Boeing, increasing the order total to 12 aircraft.[56] India plans to order another 12 P-8Is at a later time.[57][58]
The Data Link II communications technology for the P-8I was received by Boeing from Bharat Electronics Limited in April 2010. The communications system will enable exchange of tactical data and messages between Indian Navy aircraft, ships and shore establishments. Boeing will install the system during P-8I final assembly.[59][60] The IFF, system from BEL was also handed over to Boeing for integration with P-8I in December 2010.[61]
Flight testing of P-8Is began in July 2012,[62] with deliveries planned to start in 2013.[58][63] The first P-8I was handed over to an Indian naval team at the Boeing facility at Seattle on 19 December 2012.[64][65] The Indian Navy is to fly it to India along with the second and third aircraft after they handed over in May and June of next year.[64]
Others
In August 2012, AirForces Monthly reported that in the long term, "Boeing sees the UK as a prime market for its P-8A Poseidon.[66]
[edit]Variants

P-8A Poseidon – Production variant for the U.S. Navy.
P-8I Neptune – Export variant for the Indian Navy.[67]
P-8 AGS – An Airborne Ground Surveillance variant proposed to the U.S. Air Force in 2010 as an alternate to upgrades to the Northrop Grumman E-8 Joint STARS fleet.[23] Its design adds a pod-mounted, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar on the bottom of the fuselage.[24]

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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأحد ديسمبر 23, 2012 1:17 am

of course to save money Iraq could make use of a ISAR / SAR radar on tethered baloons from Faw, Umm Qasr and maybe the offshore terminals... with weapons launch over the horizon from ground based missile launchers.

Iraq still has the threat of Iranian submarines to deal with however...

from the wikipedia...
Current technologies
There are a large number of technologies used in modern anti-submarine warfare:
Sensors
Acoustics particularly in active and passive sonar, sonobuoys and fixed hydrophones and in the reduction of radiated noise. Sonar can be mounted on the hull or in a towed array.
Pyrotechnics in the use of markers, flares and explosive devices
Searchlights
Radar
Low frequency spread-spectrum electromagnetic surface wave devices
Active spread-spectrum magnetic techniques
Hydrodynamic pressure wave detection
Blue-green laser airborne and satellite LIDAR
Electronic countermeasures and Acoustic Countermeasures such as noisemakers
Passive acoustic countermeasures such as concealment and design of sound-absorbing materials to coat reflecting underwater surfaces
Magnetic anomaly detection (MAD)
Active and (more commonly) passive infra-red detection


An MH-60R conducts an airborne low frequency sonar (ALFS) operation during testing and evaluation.
In modern times forward looking infrared (FLIR) detectors have been used to track the large plumes of heat that fast nuclear-powered submarines leave while rising to the surface. FLIR devices are also used to see periscopes or snorkels at night whenever a submariner might be incautious enough to probe the surface.
The active sonar used in such operations is often of "mid-frequency", approximately 3.5 kHz. Because of the quietening of submarines, resulting in shorter passive detection ranges, there has been interest in low frequency active for ocean surveillance. However, there have been protests about the use of medium and low frequency high-powered active sonar because of its effects on whales. Others argue the high power level of some LFA (Low Frequency Active) sonars is actually detrimental to sonar performance in that such sonars are reverberation limited.
Weapons
Mines,
Torpedoes, acoustic, wire-guided, and wake homing.
Depth charges
Rockets
Missiles
Anti-submarine net
Ramming
[edit]Platforms
Satellites have been used to image the sea surface using optical and radar techniques, and it is claimed[by whom?] these might be used for indirect detection of submarines, as could thermal imaging.[citation needed] Fixed-wing aircraft, such as the P-3 Orion provide both a sensor and weapons platform as do some helicopters like the SH-60 Seahawk, with sonobuoys and/or dipping sonars as well as aerial torpedoes. In other cases the helicopter has been used solely for sensing and rocket delivered torpedoes used as the weapon. Surface ships continue to be a main ASW platform because of their endurance, now having towed array sonars. Submarines are the main ASW platform because of their ability to change depth and their quietness, which aids detection. In the future unmanned vehicles may be used in the ASW role. In early 2010 DARPA began funding the ACTUV programme to develop a semi-autonomous ocean going unmanned naval vessel.
Today some nations have seabed listening devices capable of tracking submarines. It is known to be possible to detect man-made marine noises across the southern Indian Ocean from South Africa to New Zealand.[citation needed] Some of the SOSUS arrays have been turned over to civilian use and are now used for marine research.[28]

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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الأحد ديسمبر 23, 2012 2:37 pm

Your opinion is good, but Iraq has no long coastline nor overlooking or located next to the large water areas, rather than also (I wonder if Iraq have so-called Exclusive Economic Zone EEZ.)
I think Iraq may need the medium-range maritime reconnaissance (MRMR) with anti ship/submarine ability rather than the long range planes like P-8 and there are different types of aircrafts such as:-

ATR-72 ASW which has been ordered by Turkey and Italy.

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CN-235MP Persuader / ASW is in service with a number of countries, including the US Coast Guard.

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Or Saab 2000 MPA

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And many others.

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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأحد ديسمبر 23, 2012 3:37 pm

yes the poseidon is WAY too much for Iraq.

I think the ATR-72ASW would be a good fit for Iraq.

there is especially the danger of Iranian midget submarines and semi submersibles that Iraq needs to find a solution for...

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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة خبير ومحلل عسكري » الأحد ديسمبر 23, 2012 8:24 pm

Considering the fact that Iraq has no long coastlines a fleet of dedicated ASW helicopters can do just fine to protect Iraq maritime assets.

The only issue that might face the Iraqi navy is Iranian submarines; this means the Iraqi navy should obtain Anti Submarine Warfare planes like the CN-235MP and frigates armed with anti submarine weapons and can carry ASW helicopters.

As for Iranian speed boats If we took in consideration that these boats need to be close to targets at sea for accurate hit with its unguided rockets, equipping the iraqi navy vessels with gatling guns will give it the capability to demistate these boats.

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iranian speed boat
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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأحد ديسمبر 23, 2012 11:50 pm

during the 1980s Iraq used MiG21s configured with 4x UB-32-57 pods to decimate iranian speedboats in the northern gulf.

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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة التوبوليف العراقية » الاثنين ديسمبر 24, 2012 7:07 pm

We need Hovercrafts due to :
1- Low depth in the water .
2- It can be used in rivers & costal areas
3- High speed .
like the Russian Zuber :
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The English AP 88 :
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المعرفة تسبق النصر، والجهل يسبق الهزيمة

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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الاثنين ديسمبر 24, 2012 10:57 pm

Actually, we need everything! ;)

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Re: Future Iraqi Navy

مشاركة بواسطة ايسوس العراق » الخميس يناير 03, 2013 5:59 pm

Iraq Navy plans to buy missile corvette
The Iraqi Navy is said to have finished working on a project to buy missile corvettes.
http://www.tacticalreport.com/view_news ... ettes/3097

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