f16IQ for the iraqi air force

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الثلاثاء سبتمبر 27, 2011 7:03 pm


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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الثلاثاء سبتمبر 27, 2011 7:11 pm

According to Wall Street Jurnal - The original deal between the U.S. and Iraq for 18 F-16s, which was clinched last fall, had a potential price of up to $4.2 billion, including parts, spares, training and related weaponry.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 28050.html

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء سبتمبر 27, 2011 8:26 pm

there's lots of numbers being bandied about. we will know the price when the FMS contract is announced.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الثلاثاء سبتمبر 27, 2011 11:13 pm

الخبر كما ورد من قبل وكالة رويتر للانباء وباللغة العربية

http://ara.reuters.com/article/topNews/ ... XA20110926

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ME-262 » الثلاثاء سبتمبر 27, 2011 11:46 pm

Hayder--the news stories is saying that the deposit of $1.5Bn has already been made, and for only the first batch of 18 units. I realize journalists often make mistakes when reporting technical matters, but if the money is deposited, well, then it's actual payment, not just an estimate. My guess, and hope, is that the higher price (1.5 vs. 0.9) is associated with a better armaments package...Guided munitions are expensive. Recall the original notification had only a few sorties worth of bombs/missiles per aircraft.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأربعاء سبتمبر 28, 2011 2:43 pm

ME-262.

whatever is said in the media is nothing. since there's no CONTRACT document to look at to know what the price paid was and what the specifications were...

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة mosab » الخميس سبتمبر 29, 2011 3:56 am

Since we're talking about the aircrafts, what about the pilots, were they sent to the US for training??? that was suppose to happen last year but didn't hear anything afterwards!!!
Per Ardua, Ad Astra.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الخميس سبتمبر 29, 2011 7:48 pm

yes the pilots were sent one year ago. they will finish their training in about 8 months.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ME-262 » الخميس سبتمبر 29, 2011 8:17 pm

Hayder--that training program will not include actual F-16 flight training. But upon finishing the program, graduates can move to flight training on the F-16s. Details below, emphasis added:

Iraqi pilots to begin F-16 prerequisite pilot training

The Government of Iraq has signed an agreement with the U.S. for 10 Iraqi Air Force pilots to begin prerequisite F-16 training.

This agreement follows the request submitted by the GoI to purchase 18 new Block 52 F-16 airplanes.

If this foreign military sale is approved by the U.S. Congress and the two governments can reach agreement on the terms of the deal, the F-16 program would not only significantly enhance Iraq’s air sovereignty capability, but can also enable a long-term partnership between the two countries.

“It has been a pleasure to work with our Iraqi partners to put this program together,” said Brig. Gen. Scott Jansson, director of the Iraq Security Assistance Mission. “Through this and other security cooperation programs, we have developed a strong environment of mutual trust and friendship.”

The pilot training agreement covers the training of 10 selected Iraqi Air Force pilots who are projected to begin training in the U.S. this fall [of 2010] and will be the cadre for future training. Upon graduation, these pilots will have completed all prerequisite flight training necessary to move immediately into F-16 flying training.

The program will include all necessary components of T-6A Texan II and T-38 Talon training including a course called Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals. The intensive flight training will be complemented with specialized English language training for aviation. The training for each student will last from 12 to 17 months depending on the pilot’s level of experience.

“This agreement is the most significant commitment to date by the Ministry of Defense for an F-16 program that will prove to be a key element for an enduring partnership between Iraq and the United States,” said Lt. Gen. Michael Barbero, USF-I Deputy Commanding General for Advising and Training.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الخميس سبتمبر 29, 2011 8:33 pm

Seems you didn't look at the previous post, where I refers to the news that the period of training of 12-17 a month depending on the pilot’s level of experience... It seems that the level of the Iraqi trainees is very modest.

Or that there are other reasons we don't know, at least for the time now.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ME-262 » الخميس سبتمبر 29, 2011 9:14 pm

Either their level is very modest, or a combination of that and the fact that the US sets very high standards for their pilots in training.

Anyway, thanks, Tango, and sorry for the redundant posting of that news clip.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الجمعة سبتمبر 30, 2011 8:15 pm

thanks for that ME-262! I was indeed mistaken in my belief that the training actually included F16 conversion, not just the prerequisites.

So now we can expect the first batch of pilots to graduate maybe after 2013. But the numbers in the training cycle seems to be too few for a sufficient cadre for at least 2 squadrons:
36 aircraft x 2 pilots per aircraft x 2 trainees per position = 144 pilots sent for advanced training.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ME-262 » الجمعة سبتمبر 30, 2011 9:16 pm

You welcome, Hayder,

Matching pilot training with aircraft arrival is difficult game of numbers. How about we start with some assumptions and questions?

-Delivery for first order of 18 aircraft will start in mid-2013, complete by late 2015
-Contract for second order of 18 aircraft will be signed in mid-late 2012. Delivery will be complete by 2016-2017
-IqAF will need 36 pilots ready by 2015; that's 4 years from now.
-IqAF will need another 36 pilots ready by 2016; that's 5 years from now.
-The 10 trainees will complete F-16 conversion just as first delivery commences.
-In total, 72 pilots should graduate, meaning 144 trainees should take the training in the next 5 years.
-Going forward IqAF can handle AT-6 training on its own, in Iraq.
-IqAF has no jet trainers. T-38 [or equivalent] training has to take place abroad.
-How fast can the IqAF churn out trainees through the AT-6 program?
-How long is the T-38 component of training?
-How long does the F-16 conversion take on average?

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » السبت أكتوبر 01, 2011 3:38 pm

So, what is the cost of training all those pilots (72 to 144) to qualify them to flying the F-16s outside Iraq, because Iraq didn't have jet training aircrafts to qualify the pilots to fly F-16?
That is now urgent is Iraq to get the jet training aircrafts before it is too late.
Or flying by a foreigen security company?! Or by foreign volunteer pilots as happens in some countries that suffer from a lack of pilots.

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Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الأحد أكتوبر 02, 2011 3:27 pm

The training program for Americans and NATO pilots so called ENJJPT that includes 3 phases and requires:

Phase 2-Primary Aircraft Training (T-6)
Approximately 125 hours of flight training instruction, 26 weeks of training.

Phase 3 -Advanced Aircraft Training (T-38)Talon - Fighter / Bomber Track
Approximately 135 hours of flight instruction, 26 weeks of training.

The total flying hours for phase 2/3 :262 hours and 52 weeks * one year *
USAF Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training (ENJJPT) Pipeline

Phase 1 - Academic Classes and Pre-Flight Training

Aerospace Physiology, Altitude Chamber Rides + Test
Ejection Seat / Egress Training, Parachute Landing Falls
Aircraft Systems Class + Test

Phase 2- Primary Aircraft Training (T-6)

•Approximately 125 hours of flight training instruction, 26 weeks of training
•Purpose: teach students basic flying skills
•Focus: Contact, Instruments, Low Level (Navigation) Formation (2-ship)
•Basic & Advanced Instruments Class + Test
•Mission Planning / Navigation Class + Test
•Aviation Weather Class + Test
Track Select for ENJJPT 2008

• USAF Students do not track select - all USAF students go to T-38s!
•Active duty USAF students go to initial centrifuge training in between phases.
•Track-retrack is in effect for USAF students - this sends some students to another track (heavy/tanker/helo/turboprop) after Phase II
•Students from some NATO nations (non-US) will track select (e.g. Norway)
•Some international students will depart ENJJPT and continue on a heavy track elsewhere

Phase 3 - Advanced Aircraft Training (T-38)
T-38 Talon - Fighter / Bomber Track

•Approximately 135 hours of flight instruction, 26 weeks of training
•Purpose: prepare graduates for fighter / bomber assignments
•Focus: Contact, Instruments/Navigation, Formation-Basic and Advanced (2/4 ship), Low-level (1 & 2 ship)
•Graduates will pick follow on aircraft based on merit and instructor recommendation
Merit Assignment Selection System Process - How do you pick your aircraft?
•At completion of Phase-3 advanced training, students are rank ordered based on merit
•Flying, academic, and military performance scores
•Numbers for each Major Weapon System (MWS) are determined by USAF needs
•Senior National Representative approves assignment.
•Graduates progress to follow-on FTU/RTU specific MWS training
•Students also attend Land Survival, Water Survival, and any other schools required at this time

The ENJJPT program lasts approximately 55 weeks. After successfully completing ENJJPT, all officers, regardless of nationality, receive their silver U.S. wings and those of their own country and are awarded the aeronautical rating of pilot. They attend follow-on training in their assigned aircraft at various bases around the country.

Nineteenth Air Force also provides follow-on training for most Air Force pilots in their assigned aircraft. Pilots assigned to fighter aircraft complete the introduction to fighter fundamentals course at Sheppard AFB, Texas flying the AT-38B or Moody AFB, Ga., flying the T-38C, and then move on to train in either the F-15C Eagle at Tyndall AFB, Fla., the F-15E Strike Eagle at Seymour-Johnson AFB, NC., the F-16 Fighting Falcon at Luke AFB, Ariz., the A-10 Thunderbolt II at Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ., the B-52 Stratofortress at Barksdale AFB, LA., or the B-1B Lancer at Dyess AFB, TX. You can also get assigned to become a First Assignment Instructor Pilot in either the T-37 or the T-38. ENJJPT is different from the other UPT bases in that their FAIPS will only be assigned to ENJJPT, and they go through their Pilot Instructor Training (PIT) at ENJJPT.

As of 2008, some ENJJPT pilots are also receiving transport aircraft out of their drop. Additionally, some pilots are also dropping to the U-28 (Pilatus PC-12) AFSOC aircraft right out of Sheppard.

http://www.baseops.net/militarypilot/enjjpt.html

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