f16IQ for the iraqi air force

أضف رد جديد
hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 3068
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء يوليو 12, 2011 10:20 pm

Now Dabbagh has said that the above news is not true and Iraq is not negotiating for the F16s anymore.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-1 ... hters.html


I certainly hope that the F16s are abandoned in favour of buying Russian French and Chinese aircraft rather than surrendering to Iran!

صورة العضو الشخصية
محمدالوائلي
Trainee
مشاركات: 17
اشترك في: الاثنين يوليو 25, 2011 8:19 am

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة محمدالوائلي » الثلاثاء يوليو 26, 2011 10:57 pm

ما اعرف شوكت الطيار العراقي يشوف f16 الي الجيش الامريكي يستخدمها من القرن الماضي....

شكراااا

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 3068
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » السبت يوليو 30, 2011 7:45 pm

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki said on Saturday his government would buy 36 F-16 fighters from the United States, doubling the number it had initially planned to purchase to strengthen its weak air defenses.

The announcement of the deal came as Iraq and the U.S. government discuss whether to keep some U.S. troops or military trainers in the OPEC country after the planned withdrawal of the last American soldiers at the end of the year.

"A delegation from the Iraqi Air Force along with advisers will travel to revive the contract to include a larger number than the contract had agreed before... We will make it 36 instead of 18," Maliki told reporters.

"We have to provide Iraq with airplanes to safeguard its sovereignty," he said.

Iraq's air force is one of the weakest branches of its armed forces, which are still battling insurgents and militias more than eight years after the U.S.-led invasion that toppled Sunni dictator Saddam Hussein.

The country still relies on U.S. forces for air support for its troops. The United States formally ended combat missions in Iraq last year and American soldiers are now mainly advising and assisting the Iraqi military.

Iraq this year delayed the initial purchase of the F-16s from Lockheed Martin after putting $900 million of allocated funds into its national food program to ease pressure from Iraqis protesting against poor basic services.

Maliki's government is discussing whether to ask for civilian contractors rather than keep U.S. troops on the ground after the withdrawal deadline, according to Iraqi sources. Keeping American soldiers on Iraqi soil is a sensitive issue for the fragile power-sharing coalition.

Violence in Iraq has eased since the bloody days of sectarian conflict in 2006-2007, but Sunni Islamist insurgents and Shi'ite militias still carry out almost daily attacks and assassinations.

Some of Iraq's neighbors and Kurds in the semi-autonomous north have in the past raised concerns about Baghdad purchasing sophisticated weapons systems such as F-16 jets.

Under Saddam, Iraq's air force was one of the largest in the region with hundreds of mainly Soviet-designed jets. Its military was disbanded after the former dictator was ousted following the invasion in 2003.

صورة العضو الشخصية
Mirage F1
Corporal - Naib Arif
Corporal - Naib Arif
مشاركات: 126
اشترك في: الخميس إبريل 28, 2011 6:00 pm
مكان: بغداد
اتصال:

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة Mirage F1 » السبت يوليو 30, 2011 10:39 pm

أخ حيدر الف شكر على المعلومة لكن لي استفسار هل هذا يعني وقف المفاوضات مع الجانب الفرنسي بخصوص شراء الـMirage 2000-9 الايماراتية و صرف النظر عن عرض اليوروفايتر ام سيكون هناك عدد من الصفقات في وقت واحد لحصول العراق على اكبر عدد من المقاتلات بأقل وقت

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 3068
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأحد يوليو 31, 2011 2:13 am

Mirage F1.

I really don't know what will happen. I hope Iraq is also buying a "real" fighter to go along with the downgraded F16s!

ايسوس العراق

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ايسوس العراق » الأحد يوليو 31, 2011 12:31 pm

هل تعتقدون شباب ان 36 كافية ..!؟
وهل هي من مخزون الجيش الاميركي.؟
واعتقد انها لاتتفوق على الاف 16 الاردنية والاماراتية والتركية بالعكس
هي ضعيفة بدون الامرام ووو..
اعتقد اننا لو نتجه بنفس الوقت الى التايفون :ar!
يصبح الامر افضل

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 3068
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأحد يوليو 31, 2011 1:45 pm

ايسوس العراق

the differences to other countries F16s were outlined on the first page.. here is a brief recap:


-Iraq's F16 will not be sufficient for air defence not because neighbours have larger fleets of F16s, but because by 2020 they will have F35s (Israel / Turkey), Eurofighters (Saudi already) as well as other countries will also have some 5th gen fighter by 2020. The F16 (and supplied without AMRAAM / HMCS / AIM-9X / JDAM) is a piece of rubbish even compared to the neighbours 2011 air forces let alone their 2020 forces.

-The US has refused to sell F/A18E/F to Iraq, which is the plane Iraq originally wanted.

-The US has refused to sell AIM-120C5 or AIM-9X or JDAM to Iraq (which all other neighbours have been sold).


However the F16 is CHEAP. It works out to about $35M for the aircraft and about $15M for the training/spareparts/weapons, $50M total per aircraft for the initial 18 planes ($900M). This is the same price that Morocco and other countries are paying and since its via the FMS the price is equal to the price paid by the US military since Iraq's orders are integrated into the wider US order log.

صورة العضو الشخصية
TangoIII
Lieutenant Colonel - Muqqadam
Lieutenant Colonel - Muqqadam
مشاركات: 14773
اشترك في: الثلاثاء أكتوبر 12, 2010 6:11 pm
مكان: some where out home
اتصال:

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الأحد يوليو 31, 2011 3:02 pm

الواضح أن الرفض الامريكي لكل الطلبات العراقية حول المعدات الاكثر تطورا" يكمن في سبب واحد وبسيط وهو تخوف الامريكيين من أن هذه المعدات ستجد طريقها الى آيران نتيجة لارتباطات بعض الاطراف في سلم المسؤولية في العراق وتغلغل النفوذ الايراني في القوات المسلحة

صورة العضو الشخصية
mosab
Sergeant - Arif
Sergeant - Arif
مشاركات: 210
اشترك في: الخميس أكتوبر 21, 2010 2:44 pm
مكان: Edmonton,AB

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة mosab » الأحد يوليو 31, 2011 6:12 pm

بالضبط أخ تانغو، هناك عدم ثقة امريكية بالحكومة العراقية و ارتباطاتها المعروفة، من جهة اخرى هناك اطراف داخل الحكومة نفسها لا تريد جيشا قويا خوفا من انقلاب عسكري
Per Ardua, Ad Astra.

صورة العضو الشخصية
TangoIII
Lieutenant Colonel - Muqqadam
Lieutenant Colonel - Muqqadam
مشاركات: 14773
اشترك في: الثلاثاء أكتوبر 12, 2010 6:11 pm
مكان: some where out home
اتصال:

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الثلاثاء أغسطس 02, 2011 7:54 am

US, Iraq to discuss fighter jet deal: Pentagon

.An Iraqi delegation will visit the United States this month to discuss the purchase of 18 fighter jets, a Pentagon spokesman said Monday.

"Iraq has requested 36 F-16s, (and) a delegation is coming here this month to discuss moving forward on 18 of the jets," Colonel David Lapan told reporters.

He added that the two sides were in "just the initial stage" of the purchase and that if a formal agreement were to be reached it would take time to provide the aircraft and train pilots.

"It's a long process. It could be years," he said.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki said Saturday he had revived talks to purchase 36 US F-16 fighter jets, rather than the originally mooted 18, in a multibillion-dollar deal that has been on the works for several months.

US officials in Iraq -- where 47,000 US troops are still stationed -- have said Baghdad can provide for its own internal security but does not have the necessary arms to police its air space, territorial waters and borders.

US Admiral Mike Mullen, the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that Iraq must make a decision quickly over whether it wants any US troops to remain in the country past the end of this year.

A 2008 military pact requires the withdrawal of all US forces by the end of 2011 but could be amended by mutual consent, and proposals for some US trainers to remain have been gaining traction among Iraqi leaders.

The F-16, manufactured by Lockheed Martin, is one of the most widely used fighter jets in the world and has been exported to over 20 countries.
.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/us-iraq-discus ... 17187.html

صورة العضو الشخصية
Mirage F1
Corporal - Naib Arif
Corporal - Naib Arif
مشاركات: 126
اشترك في: الخميس إبريل 28, 2011 6:00 pm
مكان: بغداد
اتصال:

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة Mirage F1 » الثلاثاء أغسطس 02, 2011 11:40 pm

ورد اليوم في اخبار العراق ان الحكومة العراقية سوف تبعث لجنة مفاوضة الى امريكا لشراء 18 طائرة F-16

صورة العضو الشخصية
ME-262
Sergeant - Arif
Sergeant - Arif
مشاركات: 287
اشترك في: الخميس يونيو 23, 2011 10:40 pm
مكان: Washington DC

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ME-262 » الأربعاء أغسطس 03, 2011 12:17 am

Let's hope that by the time these aircraft start arriving in 2-3 years, the political reality in Baghdad will be less suspicious and that Washington will be less reluctant to provide the more advanced air-to-air missiles....the F-16 will still be a decent platform for a couple more decades. While 36, or even 100 of them won't be a match for Turkey's, Israel's or KSA's air forces, they will provide deterrence vis-a-vis Iran, which is pretty much all that matters for the time being.

Btw Haider...it will be a lot more expensive than $900 million. The previous DSCA notification for the 18 aircraft deal mentioned a total value of over $4 billion, if I remember correctly. That $900 million was only going to be a down payment for the deal.

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 3068
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأربعاء أغسطس 03, 2011 4:01 pm

hi ME-262.

The DSCA number issue was already dealt with on other threads. Basically the "DSCA request" numbers are ALWAYS massively inflated "placeholder" numbers which indicate the potential total LIFECYCLE cost of the aircraft over 20 years, rather than the actual contract value of aircraft+spares+training+munitions.

C130 aircraft purchase. "DSCA notification" amount was $1.5Bn. http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/3 ... _08-73.pdf
The ACTUAL AMOUNT in the contracts was $433M! for 6 aircraft.


You see, the $4Bn is the "DSCA notification" amount which has NO RELATION to the actual amount for the cost of the aircraft! The FMS sales process is a "standardised" sales process to ensure that no bribing or overcharging happens by integrating all international aircraft sales into the US Air Force order stream with Lockheed Martin.


Now since Iraq has not actually signed a contract for F16s, I cannot send you a link to the final price. But here is a recent F16 purchase with a similar specification as Iraq but EXCLUDING armaments.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... rocco.html


Quote:
Lockheed Martin has been awarded a nearly $841.9 million contract by the US government to deliver 24 F-16 Block 52 fighters under a previously announced deal with Morocco.
The US Air Force is processing the contract on behalf of Morocco within the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) process.
The amount of the contract award shows that Morocco is paying $35 million per F-16 Block 52, which includes advanced countermeasures, electronic warfare and support equipment.
It is not clear if the award also includes the Pratt & Whitney F100-229 engines or air-launched weapons. According to a press release in 2007 by the Defense Security Cooperation Agency, the full value of the deal could rise to $2.4 billion.
Lockheed won the contract in 2007 after a presumed deal for the Dassault Rafale fell apart reportedly over conflicting messages between the French government and the manufacturer.



as you can see the unit price of an F16 was about $35M. But you will note the original DSCA notification for the above contract mentioned the price as $2.4Bn http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/3 ... _08-20.pdf
See? Did morocco pay $2.4Bn or $849M?


Iraq's F16s (if the price is $900M) are $50M per aircraft! which is PERFECTLY NORMAL.
If you make the order to "$4.2bn" (as per the DSCA notification and the press talk) it would be $233M per aircraft!! THINK ABOUT IT!



I will give another example of the "DSCA notification" issue.

The M1A1SA tanks Iraq bought. The "DSCA notification" amount was $2.16Bn
http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/3 ... /09-08.pdf
The actual amount was split among a number of separate contracts and totals $242M:
The tanks: $198M http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 44452.html
The transporters and parts: $44M http://bit.ly/bzhtf6

That is a total of $242M for the 140 tanks and the transporters! (notice the difference between the CONTRACTS and the "DSCA notification").
$242M REAL NUMBER vs $2160M "DSCA Notification"!


This same issue came up when the sami al askari was talking about Iraq "buying $13Bn of weapons" from the US (when in fact the DSCA notification values were $13Bn! but the actual CONTRACT values were less than $4Bn!).


another example? The Iraqi swiftship patrol boats and OSVs
The DSCA notification says: $1.01Bn http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/3 ... /09-07.pdf
The contract value was:
$181M for first 9 boats (the other 6 were paid for by the US http://pensacola.navyleague.us/newslett ... LAUG09.pdf)
$23.4M training
$3.5M for armour
$70M for the 2 OSVs http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/ ... 00260.html

total price = $181M + $23.4M + $3.5M + $70M = $278M that is the price Iraq paid, NOT $1010M as iin the DSCA notification.




Ok. so we can look at an example where the "DSCA notification" was LESS than the actual contract value!
The T6A texan trainers. DSCA says $210M for 20 aircraft. http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/3 ... /09-06.pdf
Actual price.
$170M for first 7 aircraft
$86.6M for last 8 aircraft
= $256m FOR ONLY 15 AIRCRAFT.



SO the lesson is. DSCA notification can give us information about the TECHNICAL details of a purchase BUT NOT about the PRICE (which is a "placeholder" and not intended as an accurate measure of the contract value).

صورة العضو الشخصية
ME-262
Sergeant - Arif
Sergeant - Arif
مشاركات: 287
اشترك في: الخميس يونيو 23, 2011 10:40 pm
مكان: Washington DC

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ME-262 » الأربعاء أغسطس 03, 2011 11:59 pm

Appreciate the detailed clarification of the FMS process, Hayder...I knew that 4.2 billion didn't make any sense but was unaware of the DSCA tradition of reporting inflated "costs". And yes, $50 million sounds more like it...and is a price that will become increasingly affordable with the projected increase in oil revenue.

صورة العضو الشخصية
ME-262
Sergeant - Arif
Sergeant - Arif
مشاركات: 287
اشترك في: الخميس يونيو 23, 2011 10:40 pm
مكان: Washington DC

Re: مجلس الوزراء يصادق على التعاقد على شراء 18 مقاتلة أف-16

مشاركة بواسطة ME-262 » الخميس أغسطس 04, 2011 12:00 am

Speaking of prices, did the Brits offer a quote on the Typhoons they wanted to sell to Baghdad?

أضف رد جديد

العودة إلى “Air Force القوة الجوية”