f16IQ for the iraqi air force

[الجيش العراقي الجديد]

هاي الاخبار الحلوة

[hayder]

here;s the dsca notification.

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/ ... _11-46.pdf

18 F-16IQ aircraft,
24 F100PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines,
120 LAU-129/A Common Rail Launchers,
24 APG-68(V)9 radar sets,
19 M61 20mm Vulcan Cannons,
100 AIM-9L/M-8/9 SIDEWINDER Missiles,
150 AIM-7M-F1/H SPARROW Missiles,
50 AGM-65D/G/H/K MAVERICK Air to Ground Missiles,
200 GBU-12 PAVEWAY II Laser Guided Bomb Units (500 pound),
50 GBU-10 PAVEWAY II Laser Guided Bomb Units (2000 pound),
50 GBU-24 PAVEWAY III Laser Guided Bomb Units (2000 pound),
22 ALQ-211 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites (AIDEWS), or Advanced Countermeasures Electronic System (ACES) (ACES includes the ALQ-187 Electronic Warfare System and AN/ALR-93 Radar Warning Receiver),
20 AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Systems (without Mode IV),
20 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/ Inertial Navigation Systems (INS), (Standard Positioning Service (SPS) commercial code only),
20 AN/AAQ-33 SNIPER or AN/AAQ-28 LITENING Targeting Pods,
4 F-9120 Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance Systems (AARS) or DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods (RECCE),
22 AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing Systems (CMDS),
20 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs),
120 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS),
20 AN/ARC-238 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio Systems,
10,000 PGU-27A/B Ammunition, 30,000 PGU-28 Ammunition,
230 MK-84 2000 lb General Purpose Bombs, and 800 MK-82 500lb General Purpose Bombs.


the good thing is that finally JHMCS are included!

[hayder]

you will note that there are 120 JHMCS in this order. As you may remember the first order did not include any JHMCS so this order covers both the first and second batch.... but


basically assuming a 12 x 6 mix of single and two seaters. you would need 24 helmets for a single crew per 18 aircraft.

But I believe (I could be wrong) that the JHMCS is custom fitted to each pilots helmet, thus assuming 2 crews per aircraft you would need 48 helmets minimum per squadron.

I presume the order includes a back order for the previous batch of JHMCS then 96 helmets would be the number needed for the first 36 planes.

The number of 120, indicates that an additional 24 helmets (enough for a single crew for a third squadron) is also in there... I presume we could hear of the third F16 batch within next year.



remember. the number of JHMCS is indicative of the number of flight crews they are planning on having active. at 120 JHMCS, this would indicate at least 3 squadron's worth of aircraft.

[TangoIII]

أول طيار عراقي يبدأ التدريب على طائرات أف-16 أعتبارا" من اليوم و حتى آيلول القادم

Iraqi pilots coming to Arizona to learn how to fly F-16s

All but a handful of U.S. troops have left Iraq, but the mission to train the Iraqi military is continuing in Tucson, Ariz., where Iraqis will learn how to fly F-16s.

Saddam Hussein’s once formidable air force was obliterated in the course of two wars against the United States. Those fighters that were not destroyed were either buried in sand and thus made inoperable or sent to Iran and Serbia.

Now Iraq plans to purchase 18 F-16 fighters so that it can protect its own airspace, which had been controlled by the U.S. military for most of the latest Iraq war.

The first of the Iraqi pilots that will learn how to fly F-16s recently arrived in Tucson with the 162nd Fighter Wing, an Air National Guard unit that specializes in training foreign pilots to fly F-16s, said wing spokesman Maj. Gabe Johnson.

The Iraqi pilot is slated to start the academic part of his training on Jan. 23 followed by hands-on flying from February through September, Johnson said.

In December, President Barack Obama said the United States would continue to work with Iraq to stand up that country’s air force.

“We’ve got to train their pilots and make sure that they’re up and running and that we have an effective Iraqi air force,” he said.

The may complicate matters for Israel if it decides to bomb Iranian nuclear sites. Iraq is closely aligned with Iran, and the F-16s could allow Iraqi pilots to intercept an Israeli airstrike on Iran.

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/flightli ... fly-f-16s/

[mack8]

Excuse me for going a bit off topic , but if Iraq right now does not have any fixed wing aircrat for QRA, pending introduction of F-16s, who is doing those missions over Iraq? Do the americans still have aircraft in the country now? Thanks.

[hayder]

answer is that there IS no air defence in Iraq at all. In fact most of the country doesn't even have radar coverage.

the situation is thus, if there is a disagreement with any of Iraq's neigbouring countries, they could put some bombs on an AN-2, fly to Baghdad and bomb the government / parliament at will... and Iraq would be able to do NOTHING about it.

that is it. a laughable charade.

[mack8]

Thanks for that Hayder, and yes that is regretable.

[ابو حسين العراقي]

answer is that there IS no air defence in Iraq at all. In fact most of the country doesn't even have radar coverage.

the situation is thus, if there is a disagreement with any of Iraq's neigbouring countries, they could put some bombs on an AN-2, fly to Baghdad and bomb the government / parliament at will... and Iraq would be able to do NOTHING about it.

that is it. a laughable charade.

اخي الكريم بعيدا عن الاستهزاء والسخرية وقريبا من الحقيقة والواقع . كلنا يعرف ان القوة الجوية العراقية بعد 2003 انتهت تماما و لم يبقى منها شي لاطائرات لاقواعد لارادارات لادفاع جوي والامريكان ابقوا الوضع على ماهو عليه لاسباب كثيرة و العنف الطائفي الذي اشتعل في البلد اعوام 2006 و 2007 قضى على النخبة الباقية التي كان يمكن ان نعول عليها في اعادة بناء القوة الجوية . ولكي تعيد الحكومة العراقية بناء القدرات الجوية العراقية لابد في بداية الامر من تدريب الطيارين الشباب العراقيين ثم شراء الطائرات والجميع يعلم ان الحكومة ارسلت 10 طلاب عراقيين الى الولايات المتحدة للتدريب على قيادة الطائرات F-16 وتبين ان واحد منهم فقط نجح في الاختبارات العملية هناك في امريكا . بأمكان الحكومة شراء الطائرات ولكن ماذا عن الطيارين هل تشتريهم ايضا؟

[hayder]

My friend Abu Hussain.

1-Iraq was free to order aircraft since 2008, but did not do so. The government simply did not understand the question of "lead time" needed to get the air force up and running (they thought its like buying a Saipa, order it and next week you have 10000 running around). This is the fault of the government and not the USA.
2- If the government realised they could not provide air defence, why did they not sign a treaty with a country (ANY COUNTRY), russia, china, poland, brazil! anyone! to "rent" air defence services for 5 years?
3- With regards to sending pilots for training, it is quite obvious that: the men selected to go to america were based on family/politics/rashwa (hence most of them failed)
4- Since Iraq is planning on buying at least 36-54 aircraft, and any GOOD airforce plans to have 2x pilots per aircraft (at least), and you can expect that maybe 25% of students sent to the US pass, so they should have sent a MINIMUM of 36x 2 sets of pilots per aircraft x 4 (failure rate) = 288 PILOTS! for training. instead they send 10! Yes. tell me about the "planning" process they have??? (and there are certainly THOUSANDS of young men willing to go through basic pilot training in order to come up with 288 candidates to send to the USA, and there are enough basic training aircraft to train them with in Iraq). The problem was, with a complete 0% planning. Complete failure.

so they needed to send 288 pilots for training (who are selected on ABILITY, and not hizb/mullah/ashira/rashwa). instead they sent 10 "pilots" selected, quite obviously, for all the wrong reasons.

[ايسوس العراق]

السلام عليكم .. يبدو ان الاستاذ حيدر متحامل كثيرا على الحكومة العراقية لكن لنتحدث بنظرة عسكرية تكون منطقية ...
العراق بدأ فعليا باعادة تأهيل القوة البرية فقط في 2007 وبنسب مختلفة وفي ظروف مرعبة يعرفها من هو يعيش بالعراق .. فكيف تريد ان يملك العراق منظومات جوية في ضل الجشع الاميركي الكبير الذي مورس ضد ااعادة الجيش العراقي الى وضعيته الطبيعية وتاخير وصول اي معدات له ومن المعروف ان اي بلد يعيش تحت ضل الفوضى العارمة لايستطيع التحكم بمسار دفع العجلة الى الامام فكيف يمكن للحكومة التي كانت شبه حكومة (مسلوبة الصلاحيات) ان تبني قوات متكاملة هذا الحديث استغربه على كل حال لنتحدث عن الوضع الحالي..
انا اتسائل من المسؤول عن وضع الخطط التسليحية للجيش العراقي حاليا في ضل وجود وزير دفاع (مدني وبعيد عن كل عرف عسكري) واذا كانت هنالك لجان تسليح مختصة
من الممكن ان تعمل بطلب من الحكومة باأالية الدفع بالاجل او الاستثمار بالنفط مقابل صفقات عسكرية ضخمة والصين وروسيا وفرنسا (اخشى من ان يكون هنالك اتفاق شبه رسمي ان يكون التسليح اميركي لاغير !)من الممكن التعامل معها على هذا الاساس هل من المعقول ان يكون العراق بهذا الحال في ضل وجود انهيار شبه تام لامن المنطقة ...ولدي استفسار لخبراء الدفاع الجوي هل بناء دفاع جوي جيد حاليا يكلف العراق الشي الكثير في ضل تواجد 14 مليار دولار للدفااع .؟ وهل ماذكر عن حاجة 30 بليون دولار للدفاع الجوي العراقي صحيح .؟ للعلم انا افضل منظومات اخرى غير الباتريوت مثل الاتش كي 9 الصيني وريث الاس 300 او الاستر 30 الفرنسي

[hayder]

Hi Asius.

If you think I am from "opposition" to the government due to politics, you are mistaken. I am judging the government on its actions, and not on any political basis, in which i have absolutely no interest.

Iraq, already in 2008 did have the ability to buy weapons, and bought weapons from Russia, Italy, France, Serbia, Ukraine, India and other countries (outside the US). Of course already in 2008 France was offering Iraq Rafale, and second hand mirage 2000s, UK was offering Typhoon. Korea was offering T50 and A50. But Iraq made no decision. You can say this was because of the americans? So why no decisions now? They could have prepared the paperwork and protocols in 2008-2011, and sign as soon as the last american soldier left... but nothing.

If we go to another point. How did they come to the conclusion of sending 10 trainee pilots (who were obviously no good!) when their plan (and payment) already reflected buying at least 36 F16s. If I remember correctly, when Iraq bought the first 36 Mirage F1s, they sent about 80 pilots (who were already qualified on fast jets in Iraq, and were not going to be eliminated in training)... this would be the equivalent of sending about 250 pilots with no jet qualifications.... which is what SHOULD have been sent to the US for training. How do those numbers stack up? Is this also the fault of the american occupation? Is the government not responsible for their actions at all?

my view on this, and other topics is very clear. I love Iraq and wish our military is able to protect our borders from all potential aggressors. That is all. It saddens me when the terrible dictatorship of saddam which destroyed Iraq has been replaced by illiterate farmers who are seemingly incapable of running a modern state, and incapable of making even the most basic of plans.

[ابو حسين العراقي]

اخ حيدر مع احترامي الشديد لارائك والتي تدل على شعورك الوطني العالي الا انك تنظر الى الامر من منظار قاصر : عملية التسليح الجوي ليست بالامر الهين والبسيط و السهل كأنك تشتري ( سيابا ) . اريد اعيدك انت و الاخوة الاعضاء الى الوراء قليلا حيث كلنا يتذكر وضع مصر بعد الهزيمة الساحقة التي لحقت بها عام 67 حينما دمر الاسرائيليون ثلاثة ارباع الطائرات المصرية والذي استغرق اعادة بناء القوة الجوية المصرية اكثر من 6 اعوام هذا مع العلم ان مصر خسرت في 2 يومين تقريبا 200 طائرة و لكنها لم تخسر الطيارين او القواعد الجوية ( واعمل مقياس بين الحالة المصرية عام67 والحالة العراقية التي استمرت من عام 1980 وحتى عام 2003) والمصريين في حينها تعرضوا الى صفعة قوية جدا من يد السوفييت ( حلفائهم انذاك ) يوم رفضوا تزويدهم بطائرات الميغ 21 واضطروا الى ( الاستجداء ) من الدول العربية ومنها العراق انذاك لتزويدهم بالطائرات وطبعا القوة الجوية المصرية عام 73 لم تستطع الصمود مرة اخرى امام الطيران الاسرائيلي ولكن الامريكان والسوفيت تدخلوا هذه المرة في حسم الحرب ( لاخاسر ولارابح ) . لاحظ الكلام : 6 سنوات لاعادة البناء , قواعد جوية سليمة , طيارين متوفرين , دعم عربي , خيانة من دولة عظمي , هزيمة واضحة . اما حديثك عن تدريب الطيارين العراقيين ( والواسطة والعشائرية والاحزاب و الرشاوى ) فأعتقد اذا كان هذا الكلام يحصل في العراق فهو لايحصل في الولايات المتحدة واعتقد ان من الغباء ان يدفع شخص ما رشوة للسفر الى الولايات المتحدة املا في الدراسة هناك ثم مايلبث ان يجر اذيال الخيبة والفشل بعد ذلك بقليل لكن واتصور انك نسيت بعض الحالات التي حصلت حيث تسرب بعض الضباط من الدورات والايفادات التي كانوا يرسلون الى الدول الاخرى للتدريب ولذا بدأت الحكومة في التقليل من عدد الموفدين واقتصار ذلك على العدد القليل منهم . اما استجأر سلاح دفاع جوي روسي او صيني او بولندي فأسألك بربك اذا كانت لديك جماعات مسلحة واحزاب ( تدعي ) كذبا وزورا وبهتانا انها تقاوم الاحتلال الامريكي ودعني اتحدث معك بصراحة اكثر هل ستستقبل عصائب اهل الحق او الجيش الاسلامي الجنود الصينين او الروس بالورود ام سيقاومون( الاحتلال الصيني ) للعراق !!

[hayder]

Akhoi. Abu Hussain

I understand the complications of building a military infrastructure. In fact my entire point was that the Iraqi government DOES NOT and did not start preparations for a new military in time. It is also very possible for a country to establish a "short term" gap measure using a combination of available aircraft and some foreign pilots. The best examples being Eritrea and Ethiopia before their war, when they managed to both build and begin operating in combat SU27 and MiG29s from scratch in a very short period of time.

Iraq can certainly do something similar with Ukraine today, they have enough MiG29s, SU27s and other assets as well as men to man them in Iraq on a 5 year contract while Iraq gets its own military service up and running.

There are many options open to Iraq. China could deliver to Iraq JF17 and J10 aircraft VERY quickly and setup the ground infrastructure within a FEW WEEKS. Iraq can then use Chinese pilots for about 2 years until they have their own. This is nothing new. Iraqi Air Force has operated in such manners in the past using seconded pilots from all over the world in the past.

The lack of decision on this subject is because the topic of the air force in particular is not high on the agenda. The government has priorities on things like electricity and providing jobs for the unemployed and they are unpopular so they have to be seen to be doing "something". for the price of one squadron of SU30, you can buy LOTS of Saipas and arsifa! And this is the main point. Short sightedness of the government.

[ابو حسين العراقي]

اجي وياك ابو كرار بس اريد اسألك سؤال : اذا ( واذا ) عصائب اهل الحق او الجيش الاسلامي ماذبحوا الطيارين الصينيين او الاوكران او الروس طيب من راح تجيب حصانة لهاي الناس ؟ سابقا بالثمانيات حصلت العراق جند طيارين فرنسيين و بالفعل نفذوا عمليات في الحرب العراقية الايرانية ( طبعا هذا كلام CIA ) لكن انت واني وكل احنه شفنه ( الجماعة ) شسوو حتى في سبيل لاينطون حصانة للمدربين الامريكان . قبل يومين رئيس لجنة الدفاع والامن ( حسن السنيد ) هدد بالاستقالة لان مجلس النواب صوت على حذف المادة 36 من قانون الموازنة العامة لعام 2012 والي تسمح للحكومة العراقية بعقد الصفقات( بصيغة الاجل ) او من خلال( عقود النفط ) يعني العراق خسر فرصة ذهبية للاستثمار واعادة البنى التحتية واعادة تسليح الجيش العراقي وطبعا يا اخ حيدر للامانة الذين صوتوا على الغاء المادة هم ( التيار الصدر و القائمة العراقية والتحالف الكردستاني ) والسبب واضح جدا .

[hayder]

agreed. the political parties are in parliament to destroy each others reputation, and not to build the country. They have their little fights between each other .... while the country can go to hell. anyway we should get back to topic of F16!


GOOGLE TRANSLATE (not good arabic):
متفق عليه. الأحزاب السياسية في البرلمان لتدمير كل سمعة الآخرين، وليس لبناء البلاد. لديهم القليل من المعارك بين بعضهم البعض .... في حين يمكن للدولة تذهب إلى الجحيم. على أي حال يجب علينا أن نعود إلى موضوع F16!