What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

قوانين المنتدى
Salam Al-Bohaya
Trainee
مشاركات: 18
اشترك في: السبت أكتوبر 23, 2010 8:17 pm
مكان: United Arab Republic - State South of Iraq
اتصال:

Re: What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

مشاركة بواسطة Salam Al-Bohaya » الأحد نوفمبر 14, 2010 8:45 pm

Again whats the total cost of all of this ?? (incl. of the ArAC , AF and GF) from Tanks to the high-end interceptors ?

do we have time to do such thing with enemies on border ?
to now we are not sure if USF-I is staying or not ..


what about used fighters USAF is retiring that have more 3-10 years (F-16s can make sometime but F-15s dont have that much in its servicelife , we all know that this was very eventful two to three decades for USAF )
Why not look for Turkish/Korean/Chinese/Russian options other than US and Brazilian
US wouldn't sell that number at least not one time (but it is likely that our option is The Texans as we did request 36 and we can get it contracted whenever we want but it might fade just how Strykers fade for BTR4s as we requested 400 strykers and contracted on 271 one day)
Brazilian is into very good relations with Iran that might block the deal ,, and we are still "in war" and brazil's policy is like Sweden and such very neutral countries ..

Ah what about Swedish AWACS ? they might be very good option for AEW and ECM
and Big Gunships like Spartans or even AC-130 !!

here is some tips :
(Credits to Anand and DJ)
"Military officials say the air force is set to mothball the majority of its 67 two-seat Hawks and replace them with 27 Vinka planes."

Are they referring to this aircraft?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmet_L-90_Redigo

I favor Iraq buying many new turboprops [for training, ISR and light attack] much as Brazil plans to use 199 A29 Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano, or the way Turkey is buying over a hundred KT-1s and local KT-1 knockoffs

I favor the US buying them as well [and ISAF buying them for the AAF, and India buying more than the 60 KT-1s they plan to buy.]

It seems to me that the short list of possible turboprops that are possible buys are (in no particular order):

Valmet L-90 Redigo [also called Aermacchi M-290 RediGO]
A29 Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano
OV-10X
A-67 Dragon
Air Tractor AT-802U [not sure how manouverable this aircraft is but it has 11 hardpoints and seems cheap]
Hawker Beechcraft AT-6B
KT-1C [Turkish knock-off being the TAI Hürkuş]
Pilatus PC-21
AC-27J Stinger II [OK, this is a big turboprop, but I think it is worth buying these since they are cheaper to operate per hour than the AC130]
AC-130 [I prefer buying fewer of these because they cost so much per hour flown, but they need to be considered relative to the other options]

The following documents compare these different turboprops versus each other:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Atta ... nnaissance
http://www.special-operations-technolog ... -coin.html
http://www.usaircraftcorp.com/AircraftComparison.pdf
user friendly table that compares various turboprops using metrics

Are there other light attack aircraft worth considering that I missed? Any good documents comparing the various light attack aircraft relative to each other?

What are everyone's thoughts on which of the above light attack aircraft might be optimal?
Thanks for Anand
----
little sleepy i will see tomorrow if i missed something to ask about

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 2999
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الأحد نوفمبر 14, 2010 9:35 pm

Iraq needs to have an air force that can give Iraq air supremacy over the battlefield. To achieve that it needs to have good aircraft, missiles, AEW platforms and the C3 that joins it all together.

In order for Iraq to secure the very long ground border, it needs to have SAR equipped aircraft / blimps along the border, with rapid reaction forces 30km from the border (out of range of most iranian artillery)... and then... the LAARs that provide the air support to "plug the gap" in capability until ground forces can be concentrated to attack enemy concentrations.

The enemy has freedom to concentrate anywhere they want to.... whereas Iraq has to watch the entire border all the time. This gives the enemy a massive advantage. LAARs in association with air defence fighters and SEAD/DEAD aircraft nullify the enemy's advantage and brings the initiative back into the hands of the defending Iraqis.

As to what Iraq should buy for this force?

my view is:

72 Eurofighter OR Rafales with AESA radars and METEOR missiles.
36 Sukhoi 35s for the SEAD/DEAD/Interdiction
72 SU-39 or similar for the Battlefield Air Interdiction (enemy's rear supply lines and concentrations).
200 SuperTucano OR AT6C LAAR aircraft to provide constant air coverage and fire support (flying artillery) over the entire border region.

The intelligence element can be covered with:
24 KingAir 350i ISR planes (Iraq bought these already)
8 E2 Hawkeye or other AEW&C Aircraft (2 in the air all the time)
12 Blimp based Air and ground Surveillance radars


Such a force would cost a LOT of $$$. The cost can be divided into CAPEX (purchasing price) and OPEX (Operational Expenditure).

CAPEX would be about $45Bn
Annual OPEX in the $7Bn range.


The force would be split between air force (interceptors and interdictors) and army aviation (SU39s and LAARs)

In terms of deployment. You have :
4 fighter squadrons (Qayara, Baghdad, Imam Ali. Basra)
3 Interdictor squadrons of (12 aircraft each) - Qadissiya, Baghdad, Imam Ali
4 SU39 BAI aircraft squadrons deployed in the North (Kirkuk), centre (Baghdad) and south (kut, Imam Ali).
10 squadrons of LAARs spread across the country's army aviation bases north to south.
The AEW and ISR aircraft operating from two bases (Qayara and Imam Ali) to give overlapping coverage of the country.

Salam Al-Bohaya
Trainee
مشاركات: 18
اشترك في: السبت أكتوبر 23, 2010 8:17 pm
مكان: United Arab Republic - State South of Iraq
اتصال:

Re: What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

مشاركة بواسطة Salam Al-Bohaya » الثلاثاء نوفمبر 16, 2010 1:40 pm

hayder كتب:Iraq needs to have an air force that can give Iraq air supremacy over the battlefield. To achieve that it needs to have good aircraft, missiles, AEW platforms and the C3 that joins it all together.

In order for Iraq to secure the very long ground border, it needs to have SAR equipped aircraft / blimps along the border, with rapid reaction forces 30km from the border (out of range of most iranian artillery)... and then... the LAARs that provide the air support to "plug the gap" in capability until ground forces can be concentrated to attack enemy concentrations.

The enemy has freedom to concentrate anywhere they want to.... whereas Iraq has to watch the entire border all the time. This gives the enemy a massive advantage. LAARs in association with air defence fighters and SEAD/DEAD aircraft nullify the enemy's advantage and brings the initiative back into the hands of the defending Iraqis.

As to what Iraq should buy for this force?

my view is:

72 Eurofighter OR Rafales with AESA radars and METEOR missiles.
36 Sukhoi 35s for the SEAD/DEAD/Interdiction
72 SU-39 or similar for the Battlefield Air Interdiction (enemy's rear supply lines and concentrations).
200 SuperTucano OR AT6C LAAR aircraft to provide constant air coverage and fire support (flying artillery) over the entire border region.

The intelligence element can be covered with:
24 KingAir 350i ISR planes (Iraq bought these already)
8 E2 Hawkeye or other AEW&C Aircraft (2 in the air all the time)
12 Blimp based Air and ground Surveillance radars


Such a force would cost a LOT of $$$. The cost can be divided into CAPEX (purchasing price) and OPEX (Operational Expenditure).

CAPEX would be about $45Bn
Annual OPEX in the $7Bn range.


The force would be split between air force (interceptors and interdictors) and army aviation (SU39s and LAARs)

In terms of deployment. You have :
4 fighter squadrons (Qayara, Baghdad, Imam Ali. Basra)
3 Interdictor squadrons of (12 aircraft each) - Qadissiya, Baghdad, Imam Ali
4 SU39 BAI aircraft squadrons deployed in the North (Kirkuk), centre (Baghdad) and south (kut, Imam Ali).
10 squadrons of LAARs spread across the country's army aviation bases north to south.
The AEW and ISR aircraft operating from two bases (Qayara and Imam Ali) to give overlapping coverage of the country.
Habibi ...

Again if we use sensors all things if they use EA/ECM then how this sensors will work

do we have 50 Billion ?

regards

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 2999
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الثلاثاء نوفمبر 16, 2010 11:26 pm

The $50Bn is split over a 10 year purchase agreement, not a single year. So about $5bn a year (currently MOD budget is $11Bn per year).

Certainly they can try to use ECM/obstructions. But Iraq's sensor network is multi-layer. Using the logic of ECM, we would go back to using Hawker Hurricanes with gunsights ;)

Iran's ECM is rather primitive by modern standards, and a combination of Radar, Thermal, Optical, geo-surveying, satelliet imagery as well as signals inteligence should give Iraq a pretty good view of things.

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 2999
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » الخميس نوفمبر 18, 2010 4:29 am

DJ Elliot made a retort to my idea on his blog here.

http://home.comcast.net/~djyae/site/?/blog/view/77/

صورة العضو الشخصية
TangoIII
Lieutenant Colonel - Muqqadam
Lieutenant Colonel - Muqqadam
مشاركات: 14520
اشترك في: الثلاثاء أكتوبر 12, 2010 6:11 pm
مكان: some where out home
اتصال:

Re: What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

مشاركة بواسطة TangoIII » الخميس نوفمبر 18, 2010 4:18 pm

Important for Iraq now is to protect the national air space as a first stage, which is not available now, nor has the potential now even for the near future and also as the Americans say about that. - see News below - The five-year plans and or the 10 years plan to build an realy Iraqi air force. It must stem from the need to counter potential enemy, not fight or attack a neighboring country of Iraq.
Iraq vulnerable to air attack in 2012: US general

Iraq, which has no combat aircraft, will be vulnerable to an air attack for at least a year after American troops leave at the end of 2011, the spokesman for US forces in the country said on Wednesday.

While Iraqi forces will largely be able to deal with any internal security threats after the US withdrawal, Brigadier General Jeffrey Buchanan told AFP the country will be at risk of airborne attack until at least 2013, when it hopes to take delivery of F-16 US fighter jets.

"There's a potential; there will be a gap in their capability that they would need to have a complete conventional defensive capability," he said in an interview.

"Air-to-air, air sovereignty, and really what we're talking about is a multi-role fighter ... What they're not going to have is a fighter. That's what the F-16s are for, but they don't come in until 2013."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... c0c7c4c.11

hayder
Field Marshal - Muheeb
Field Marshal - Muheeb
مشاركات: 2999
اشترك في: الأربعاء أكتوبر 06, 2010 10:21 pm
مكان: Europe

Re: What should Iraq's strategy be in defending the borders?

مشاركة بواسطة hayder » السبت مارس 18, 2017 11:58 am

revisiting this thread after 7 years.

we can see how things actually played out.

Border defence issues (on the west not the east) allowed a heavily armed daesh to occupy a large swathe of iraq in 2013-2015 period.

Some things are "coming along". The air force did get some SU-25s to provide heavy CAS. The army aviation ended up with chinese UCAVs instead of manned LAAR platforms but essentially providing the same utility, and the King Air 350ISR planes as well as drones are there to give the armed forces better surveillance...

many weaknesses still exist in the force. External defence is pretty minimal. Iraq's ability to resist any external aggression by air is very slim still and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel to provide even notional air defence coverage over Iraqi territory.

أضف رد جديد

العودة إلى “Air Force القوة الجوية”

الموجودون الآن

المستخدمون الذين يتصفحون المنتدى الآن: لا يوجد أعضاء مسجلين متصلين و 6 زوار